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Post by GreySkull Masters on Sept 18, 2019 2:54:47 GMT
I have been seeing this a lot on RFA’s and yes it has happened to my own. It seems to me to be something that shouldn’t be allowed. If a player is almost reached the 24 hours and then is bid up to try to make it harder for the team to resign the player. That should be part of the strategy of placing your bids in the first place.
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 3:38:07 GMT
In auctions people bid against themselves all the time. To increase their chance of winning the bid. It's part of any auction.
Javy said managers can bid on their own players. As the manager who owns the RFA, you can also bid. For example you can end it by putting in a bid that no one else would meet for for your player.
The problem with your issue is if a contract is under the market rate, you're saying people can't bid anymore and the manager who owns the RFA should get the contract below what people are willing to bid.
Each bid cost the bidding manager, it's not like it's the same bid. There is no difference who puts the bid in. We have bidding to let the market decide the value.
As the RFA manager you should have a value in your head that you are willing to accept or walk away.
Effectively you're saying any time you put a bid in, it's your last bid. Cause you can't bid again after that if no one else bids. It potentially takes away the whole competitiveness of the bidding process and leaves the door open for deals to be done to lock out managers and keep bids cheap.
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 3:49:36 GMT
When I had Steph Curry as a RFA the other year, I had to wait during the bidding period and leave enough money to keep him at the value i was willing to accept. If I felt it was too high then I would have had to let him go and used that money on other players. This is no different. Its the same degree of difficulty to resign the player once a bid is in.
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 4:02:12 GMT
On the contrary, in any auction or bidding that I know of "bidding against yourself" is not possible and therefore not allowed, the auctioneer wont allow you. Plain and simple. Best example is during Yahoo Auction Draft, once you have the highest bid at the moment you are not allowed to offer another bid on the same player. The system disables the bid button, try doing a Mock Auction Draft so you can verify.
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 4:19:16 GMT
I am talking about auctions in general. Like a house auction, car auction. People bid themselve up all the time. To guarantee the win, because the owners can still set the value they are willing to sell at.
It's what ever the market is willing to pay. That's why we have a bidding process.
In the yahoo auction, you win the bid you get the player, like UFA. This is RFA, the current owner can match, it's not the same.
The two managers who have issues both have RFA that people are bidding on.
The outcome that you are seeking is for people to agree to give you a contract below what people are willing to bid. To end the bidding early.
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 4:26:40 GMT
I am also talking about auctions in general. Give me clear & specific example where bidding against oneself is allowed, I already gave you an example.
The only difference in bidding in an RFA is that the existing manager can match any winning bid. The winning bid is the highest bid that goes unmatched for 24 hrs. These are the rules for our league. If your last bid is already unmatched for the last 23hrs & 59 mins, whats the point of bidding again? You already won the bid. The next part should come on whether the existing manager chooses to match your offer or not.
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 4:33:26 GMT
It's only a winning bid, if it's not matched.
You ask "what's the point of bidding again?
If i had stopped bidding last night, you would have matched and walked away with the contract below what I was willing to bid. How is that a winning bid?
Unless you are rescinding your right to match, then there is no point in bidding again. Are you?
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 4:39:26 GMT
I am talking about auctions in general. Like a house auction, car auction. People bid themselve up all the time. To guarantee the win, because the owners can still set the value they are willing to sell at. It's what ever the market is willing to pay. That's why we have a bidding process. In the yahoo auction, you win the bid you get the player, like UFA. This is RFA, the current owner can match, it's not the same. The two managers who have issues both have RFA that people are bidding on. The outcome that you are seeking is for people to agree to give you a contract below what people are willing to bid. To end the bidding early. We have a bidding process for bidders to submit their offers, you try to outbid other people who also wants the player/product/item you want. If you have the highest bid then you cannot/should not bid to outbid yourself. The price on the table is whatever the market is willing to pay for that player/product/item. Your notion of the market price is your own and is sometimes not the whole league's. The only difference in Yahoo Auction Draft with what we have for RFA is that existing managers have the option to match winning offers. But the same auction process is the same. |
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 4:43:06 GMT
That's not from our rules.
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 4:46:25 GMT
Again, your bid to outbid yourself is not a valid bid. Find me an example of where this kind of auction is accepted, not just your neighbor's/friend's auction.
So how will this end? Each day before the 24th hour you will raise the bid against yourself by 1M until the Free Agency period ends? Or until other elite Free Agents are not available?
So you are using the RFA to hold me hostage after I declined your offer of Steph Curry for Harden. Not cool.
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 4:51:03 GMT
That's not from our rules. Im sorry but whats not in the rules? Sometimes there are things that are not written in the rules but you have to simply understand the whole point of what the rule is about. Thats called, "spirit of the law/rule". And I believe it all just boils down to fair play. |
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 5:01:39 GMT
Bidding against yourself is a common strategy in auctions. Just google it.
Regardless of what I do, you need to keep aside enough money to pay the contract that you are willing to match. There is no hostage situation as you need to have enough money to match the contract regardless of what i do. There is also nothing stopping you from bidding yourself. But you could and I understand, don't want to overpay.
That's what I had to do with Curry. The trade offer is irrelevant. Other bids are irrelevant. I am not trying to do anything to you. There is nothing personal. I am just trying to find the price of the bid which would win it for me.
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 5:21:52 GMT
If it is a common strategy then show me an example. Google it for me please.
This is a hostage situation because whats preventing you to raise the offer everyday until I do not have quality players to get? That is clearly your strategy and I do believe it is personal.
So are you saying if I agreed to deal Harden for Steph, you still would have raised the offer because for you that is what Harden's value is? You still will bid against yourself?
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Post by DemiGodTom on Sept 18, 2019 5:32:17 GMT
www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=benefits+of+bidding+against+yourselfAll you have to do is decide what Harden is worth to you and leave aside enough money if you want to match it. Or move on and bid on other players. You can't have both regardless of what I do. I am focused on winning a bid for a player, it doesn't matter who the manager is. The process is the same regardless of who the player is. If we had done the trade then there would be no bidding. Its a competitive bidding process. That's all it is.
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Post by Suicide Squad on Sept 18, 2019 6:04:26 GMT
Your specific example please? The one which does not involve rescinding offers and re-submitting another offer.
The bidding process is supposed to be over, your original bid is the highest bid because no other team offered another after 24 hrs. The next part is waiting for the existing manager to match.
Yes, it is a competitive bidding process. But what you are doing is just extending & re-extending the bidding process when it should have been over already.
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